Chinese Aviation Industry

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

has the improved version of the MA-60 the MA-600 bagged any export orders?

there is also a MA-700 under development also

It was reported that Laos government ordered 2 MA-600 during the Zhuhai Air Show 2010.

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China Civil Aviation Flying College (中国民用航空飞行学院) also operates 2 MA-600.

Originally Posted by usaf0314

sorry to pop your bubble, but it wouldn't matter what the wheel/blades are made of, there simply won't be enough thrust considering how small the motor is, and even if the motor is powerful enough, there won't be any compartment to store the necessary fuel.

Damn...does that mean owner would still be stuck in traffic...LOL. Jokes aside, what if the fuel is replaced by an electric motor powered by a highly charge battery? Of course the concern goes back to making smaller, more powerful and efficient packages, by then it would still be too expensive to mass produce.

Originally Posted by Equation

Damn...does that mean owner would still be stuck in traffic...LOL. Jokes aside, what if the fuel is replaced by an electric motor powered by a highly charge battery? Of course the concern goes back to making smaller, more powerful and efficient packages, by then it would still be too expensive to mass produce.

well, if u want to go deeper into aerodynamics, the fan's thrust will dissipate very quickly without a duct directing the air. High powered electric motor requires a huge amount of power, so there will be a lot of battery... last time i checked, batteries weights A LOT so even with duct+electric motor(big ones weights more than a regular motor)+battery, that thing will NEVER get off the ground.

The only way I can see that thing fly would be 4 turbo prop or jet engines, 1 at each corner of the car. but even then, unless we solve the Fuel/energy issue, it will have a very short range(since the only lift force generator are the engines and not wings). bottom line is, anything that has a VTOL feature is gonna have a lot of problems with our current technology.

this is a prototype still under development.
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New entrants to the world jetliner market struggle to take off
2012-05-21
Source:Economist.com

IT MAY well turn out that pilot error, or something other than a fault in the aircraft, made a Russian-built Sukhoi Superjet crash into a mountain in Indonesia on May 9th, killing all on board. But the disaster, on top of recent reports of unreliability among the first Superjets to go into service, is bound to hinder Russia’s ambition to become a big exporter of modern commercial aircraft. And the Russians are not the only ones trying, and struggling, to do so.

The Chinese, like the Russians, have spent years working on planes that, they hope, will muscle in on the two near-duopolies in the world airliner market. Russia’s Superjet, and its Chinese equivalent, the ARJ21, are smaller “regional” jets, the market for which is dominated by Embraer of Brazil and Bombardier of Canada. The much juicier market for full-sized airliners is currently divided between America’s Boeing and the Franco-German Airbus. Russia’s MC-21 and China’s C919, also under development, are potential competitors to Boeing’s 737 and Airbus’s A320.

The Superjet, which has been certified by the European union ’s air-safety agency, was beginning to gather some interest outside the former Soviet sphere, encouraging Sukhoi to hope for sales of perhaps 40 a year by 2014. However, the first four planes delivered to Aeroflot of Russia have suffered repeatedly from breakdowns, leading to flight cancellations.

China’s ARJ21 had its maiden flight in 2008 and its maker, Comac, was due to start deliveries last year. But the plane’s certification by the Chinese and American authorities may slip into next year. China’s C919 is supposed to have its first test flight in 2014 but that too may slip. Comac is vague about how many firm orders it has. At the Dubai air show in November, Irkut, the Russian company making the MC-21, said it had 235 orders, mostly from former Soviet countries. It too is aiming for a maiden test flight in 2014, but an Irkut executive acknowledged that his firm was still seeking an international partner to help it market the plane.

Then there are the Japanese: Mitsubishi makes some chunky bits for planes but aspires to sell a complete flying machine of its own. However, its MRJ, yet another contender for the regional-jet market, has just been delayed. Its maiden flight, which had been due around now, has been put back to late next year. The MRJ is said to be technically a good plane, but like the other new contenders it has failed so far to get a critical mass of orders.

A similar fate, its rivals hope, may befall Bombardier, which wants to move up from regional jets to full-sized airliners with its CSeries. Last month the company said it was still on course to deliver the first CSeries to airlines in late 2013. It has more than 300 firm or tentative orders, and hopes to make 120 of them a year by 2016. However, two early customers—Republic Airways Holdings of America, and Korean Air—have expressed fears that it is not selling well enough to guarantee its success. Partly to assuage such worries, Bombardier has agreed with China’s Comac that the two will seek to make their planes’ cockpits and other systems similar, to encourage airlines to order both together.

Delays, breakdowns and even accidents are not unknown when the established makers launch new planes. But they have a record of getting them right eventually, whereas the new entrants cannot offer potential buyers such reassurance. Moreover, the industry’s dominant firms are not just sitting back watching their rivals struggle. Boeing and Airbus have launched, to great success, re-engined versions of the 737 and A320, and Embraer is likewise re-engining its E-Jet regional aircraft.

So will any of the new contenders ever pose a serious threat to the established order? Although they are behind the Russians on producing a regional jet, and lag the Canadians in turning out a full-sized airliner, the betting is on the Chinese, in the long term. Their government seems determined to succeed, however long it takes, and undoubtedly has the money to make its dreams take wing.

China's leading airports are on the cusp of strong international growth, with several new routes to be launched in the coming 12 to 24 months. Growth will be driven by foreign and local needs: countries will have greater needs to further link with China while locally there will be an increasing propensity to travel among the Chinese population as incomes rise, while high-speed rail expansion will push Chinese airlines to grow internationally, at the same time providing feed opportunities for foreign carriers at the main Chinese gateways.

But growth is not only expected at the main Chinese hubs. Second tier airports can also look forward to increasing air services as the Government supports expansion from these hubs and as the LCC revolution takes hold in North Asia. New carriers across the region will be looking for new route opportunities, fuelling rapid growth at non-congested Chinese gateways. China's own second tier airlines are also looking to expand abroad, mainly within the Asia Pacific region, which will spur development at the provincial capitals across China's vast interior and economic zones.

The opening of secondary airports in China, such as Chongqing and Chengdu, is also of interest to foreign and local carriers, opening up new slot opportunities. Finnair commenced services to Chongqing in May-2012 while Air France in Apr-2012 opened a route to Wuhan. Both carriers already had services to China's main two entry points, Beijing and Shanghai, while many other international carriers only serve one or none, making them more likely to first enter Beijing or Shanghai before branching into smaller destinations.

China can offer numerous hubs: west (Urumqi) for Russia/CIS traffic, northeast (Beijing) to Japan and Korea, southwest (Chengdu/Chongqing) to the Indian Subcontinent and southeast (Guangzhou) to Asia and Australia.

Meanwhile, the Middle East carriers continue to expand aggressively into China, providing extensive linkages to other parts of the world. Notable emerging market linkages are to Africa, where China is significantly boosting trade and investment, as well as the high-growth economies of South America. African carriers are also expanding to China, while the European major carriers are expected to continue to cherry pick key Western Chinese cities with new routes from their hubs, especially as new generation aircraft enter their fleets.

China's airport sector recorded a very positive 2011, particularly among the second tier airports, where growth rates of 15%+ were commonplace. Guangzhou led the big three Chinese hubs in terms of growth rates, while Beijing edged closer to Atlanta as the world's busiest airport....

More at New routes to China to flourish in the next few years

On May 23, 2012, Xian signs contract to sell 3 unit of MA-60 to a EUROPEAN COUNTRY Ukraine
Mars RK, a small Ukrainian Airline.


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http://www.avic.com.cn/cn/xwzx/cydt/378041.shtml

月23日，西飞国际与乌克兰MARS航空公司在西安阎良签署3架“新舟”60飞机购机合同。这是西飞国际首 次与欧洲客户签署“新舟”60飞机购机合同。乌克兰MARS航空公司是一家私营股份制公司，目前运营的主要 机型有萨伯340涡桨支线飞机及奥古斯塔直升机。

Dont know if its true. Russia and china planning to develop new plane based on the Il-96, a soviet-era plane. Agreement will be signed next week during V. Putin trip to china.

China-Russia Airplane Venture Planned | Business | The Moscow Times

Originally Posted by kroko

Dont know if its true. Russia and china planning to develop new plane based on the Il-96, a soviet-era plane. Agreement will be signed next week during V. Putin trip to china.

China-Russia Airplane Venture Planned | Business | The Moscow Times

The Russians stopped producing the passenger version of the Il-96 due to cost issues and lack of market penetration, so cooperation on a follow-on would make sense in terms of cost reduction and increasing production numbers.

Google Images

Kinda look like the Boeing 777 with the difference of 4 engines instead of 2.

Currently COMAC has the C929 and 939 planned but actual development won't start for another few years, and I very much doubt either will have a four engine configuration.

A cursory search on the COMAC site reveals no reference to the follow on 9x9s, every source on them appear to be little more than guesses and speculation.

I have no doubt COMAC has some sort of roadmap but I don't think anybody really has a clue what they are.

Originally Posted by kroko

Dont know if its true. Russia and china planning to develop new plane based on the Il-96, a soviet-era plane. Agreement will be signed next week during V. Putin trip to china.

China-Russia Airplane Venture Planned | Business | The Moscow Times

Main question: engines.

We'll see if it happens. Aren't there a lot of deals like this and we never see anything of it? Maybe if Putin is signing that gives it something extra. But look at that joint helicopter deal with that model we've seen... There's nothing but CGI/photoshop images of it. I can see the military use but for international commercial airline business? The Russians alone don't have a good reputation let alone issues with Chinese quality. I can only see it as the Russians wanting a piece of China's commerical airline business which is the savior of why Chinese quality issues aren't an issue. China's the market which is also why I read the US and Europe are conspiring to stop China's own domestic airline industry by complaining it's government subsidized. China starts building and buying its own airliners and Boeing and Airbus commercial airline business starts a downward spiral.

Originally Posted by AssassinsMace

China's the market which is also why I read the US and Europe are conspiring to stop China's own domestic airline industry by complaining it's government subsidized. China starts building and buying its own airliners and Boeing and Airbus commercial airline business starts a downward spiral.

Well they didnt complain about russia subsidizing sukhoi. Why would they complain about comac ? I even saw somewhere on the internet that boeing cooperated something with comac.

Besides, complaining would lead to nowhere. It will take many many years for comac to develop a product that is safe and competitive enough to be able to get sales in US/EU airline markets. So it would be really pointless.