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Chinese AAM

This is a discussion on Chinese AAM within the Air Force forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; interesting we never had a thread on this before, anyhow, this is a nice little article on PL-8 and PL-9C ...

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    tphuang's Avatar
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    Chinese AAM

    interesting we never had a thread on this before, anyhow, this is a nice little article on PL-8 and PL-9C

    武器纵横:中国新型霹雳格斗导弹定型
    new PL missile getting certified
    2006年03月12日 10:03 军事文摘

      以色列怪蛇为蓝本[虚幻天空]
    started off with python
      为尽快缩小与外国差距,1982年中国国防工业部门开始论证引进新型空空导弹。
    in 1982, China decided to import new AAM
      当年刚投入黎巴嫩空战的以色列怪蛇III50枚命中的优异战绩引起中方注意,斥资5亿美元向以色列拉斐 尔公司采购1500枚怪蛇III导弹,并引进生产线,于1989年获得生产许可证,命名为PL-8,PL为霹雳的汉语拼音首字母。这种第三代空空导弹成为中国20世纪90年代至今空军近战的主力武器,与 首期投资32.5亿人民币的十号工程(歼十)、5.5亿美元的八二工程(与美合作改良歼8B战斗机、涡扇九 发动机生产线及研发飞豹战轰机)等,成为80年代国家四大重点军备工程。这些引进和合作对于加强解放军航空 兵战斗力和借鉴西方标准化起了巨大的作用,其影响是远非引进俄制SU-27SK和SU- 30MKK战机所能取代的。
    That year, Israel's python3's performance in Lebanon battle really caught the attention of Chinese. It paid 500 million to Rafale for 1500 Python 3 and including a production line. It got this in 1989. It called the missile PL-8. This becomes China's main Short ranged AAM from 90s onward. Including the initial investment into J-10 project which cost 3.2 billion yuan and J-8II which cost 550 million dollar, they are China's main air force programs in the 80s.
      PL-8由西安东方机械厂大批生产,其生产线是全国工程化实力最强、质量最为可靠的。该生产线除了生产 PL-8和PL-9空空导弹外,也承接其它军工产品。PL-8/怪蛇III的知名度也许稍逊于同代的美国AIM-9L响尾蛇导弹,然而除个别零件外,其整体性能并不逊色于后者。中国在20世纪90年代初曾从友好国家弄到 一批AIM-9L,由于其接口与PL-8相同,可不经改装直接试射,结果表明最重要性能之一的不可逃逸区小于PL-8。这一点美国人比中国人更明白,2001年王伟座机被美军撞毁后,美军播出之前的录像,特别强 调PL-8“严重威胁美军飞行员安全”,可见,美军的格斗导弹从性能而言并无优势
    PL-8 started mass Production in a factory in Xian. This is China's most reliable production line. Outside of PL-8 and PL-9 production, it also did other military products. PL-8 is slightly superior to AIM-9L. China got some AIM-9L from friendly countries in early 90s. Due to the same attachment, China can test fire these missiles without changes. The result is that the NEZ of AIM-9 is less than PL-8. Even Americans praised the quality of PL-8.
      PL-8最小射程500米,最大射程15公里,最大使用高度20公里,最大速度2.5马赫,最大过载35g,导引 头最大离轴发射角20度;引信采用发动雷达加触发式,作用距离7~10米;破片式弹头铸有2500颗钢珠, 杀伤半径13米,重11公斤;全弹重120公斤,弹长3米,弹径157毫米,翼展 0.86米,是世界上出色的第三代红外格斗导弹。
    PL-8's minimum distance is 500m, maximum is 15KM, max altitude is 20KM and speed is mach2.5, load is 35g, seeker's off boresight is 20 degrees. The seeker has 2500 (something), kill radius is 13 meters, weighs 11 kg, the entire missile weighs 120KM, 3 meter long, wing is 0.86 m
      被军方称为八号弹的PL-8,以操作简单、维护简易、性能优异、可靠实用而获得好评。
      20世纪90年代初在消化PL-8技术的基础上,中国空空导弹研究院推出了试验用的PL-8H护卫舰舰载型导弹,后来又研制出改良型导弹PL-8B。
    After absorbing PL-8's technology, China first tested PL-8H the shipborn version and then later developed the improved PL-8B
      PL-8B与PL-8外形最大不同是寻标器头罩玻璃以非透明材料制作。1993年PL-8B定型靶试成功,翌年开始服役,目前在役的大部分是这种国产型。由于服役后没出过一次质量问题,空军对其 质量可靠性非常满意,因此亦获得技术兵器罕见的免检待遇。
    biggest difference bw PL-8B and PL-8 is the seeker
      八号工程从以色列引进的不光是技术,更重要的是完整的当代先进生产流程和优良的质量管理体系,后者的影 响远超出PL-8和导弹行业本身,它令中国军工产业潜移默化与西方接轨,其深层意义远超一般人所想像。
    It's not just the technology, but also the advanced production and quality system that has really impacted China's military complexes.
      抗电子干扰能力超群
    ECM capability
      作为国产第三代空空导弹的第一种产品,PL-9可视作PL-8的中国兄弟。PL-9是由中国空空导弹研究院已故大师董秉印任总设计师,1986年开始研制,1988年投产。
    PL-9 is the brother of PL-8. Started development in 86 and finished in 88
      在设计过程中空导院逐步吸收以色列技术,例如其寻标器基本沿用后者的氟致冷锑化铟探测器,弹身、弹径、 弹长、弹重也几乎相同,使用高度和过载亦一样,只是尾翼和前舵有别。外形较接近AIM-9L和PL-5C,但弹体前后舱段设计则与法国的魔术I/PL-7相似,不过自动搜索截获能力、机动性及离轴发射能力、毁伤概率高于PL-7,单发命中率80%,与AIM-9L/M相当。PL-9有定轴(寻标器)扫描跟踪、定轴瞄准、雷达随动瞄准及头盔瞄准具跟踪四种方式。PL-9于1995年开始改进设计,1997年开始靶试。与改进前比较最大区别是把模拟信号升级为数字信号,主要 表现在软件编程,要改变参数只需通过接口更换软件即可,红外线导引头也由单元式改为四单元。这样一改就等于 导弹内部换了一代,全弹性能提升半代,新型号称为PL-9C。
    PL-9 uses Israeli technology, the exterior is similar to AIM-9L and PL-5C, but the design is similar to PL-7/Magic. Performance is superior to PL-7, with a hit rate of 80%. This is similar to AIM-9L/M. PL-9's improved version started design in 95 and started testing in 1997. The biggest improvement is the digital processing, software, the infrared seeker went from one to 4 parts, this is called PL-9C
      PL-9C翼展0.81米,弹重123公斤,弹头重12公斤,导引头最大离轴发射角30度,采用激光近炸引信,最 大速度2.5马赫,最大射程16公里,最大使用过载40g。
    PL-9C's off boresight is 30 degrees, max range is 16KM, load is 40g, speed is mach2.5, mass is 123 KG and warhead is 12KG.
      身价近百万的PL-9C,使用时与PL-5E形成高低档搭配,其出色的抗干扰能力尤其值得称道。
    It forms a hi-lo combination with PL-5E
      首先,无线电引信换成激光近炸引信,提高了电子战条件下的命中率。在抗背景干扰方面,该弹能向贴地低飞 的目标,包括巡航导弹作有效攻击,甚至可攻击在地面刚开始发动而未起飞的飞机。

      弹体内增加了DMP芯片,是PL-8/PL-9难以比拟的,以前若敌机改变红外线干扰弹投放规律,中国军方必须更换硬件即弹上逻辑固态电路板才能有效抗 衡,效率极低。PL-9C只要以地面检测设备通过接口,把根据红外线干扰弹新投放规律建立数学模型的新算法输入弹上电脑即可马上 重上战场,故被空导院形象地称为柔性化、智慧化导弹。

      根据一般常识,导弹性能提高1倍,战机综合作战效能提高4次方即16倍,若再配合头盔瞄准具或者改进雷 达、火控系统,系统效能还能再提高2~4倍。即使落后的歼七、歼八战机,装备了该型导弹亦有能力在近战时击 败F-15和F-16等强一代飞机,这对经费不足、整体空战效能改善长路漫漫的中国航空兵来说极具吸引力。
    It simply talks about the improved performance of PL-9 here.
      可与美军“毒刺”相匹敌

      1999年3月,PL-9C样机抗干扰演示大获成功,军委决定将其从外销型纳入国家重点型号,命名为III型导弹,以区别于代号Ⅰ 型的PL-8和Ⅱ型的PL-9。
    The PL-9C's ECM capability really did well in 99.
      2001年秋,作适应性改良的国内版在西北靶场两枚试射失败,之后进行了5个月攻关共解决十多处隐患。 期间董秉印总设计师因积劳成疾不幸英年早逝,由今年65岁的金先仲接任总设计师,年轻的梁晓庚则自1997 年秋已担任副总设计师。
    The improved deomstic version fire twice in 2001 and had setbacks.
      2002年春,国内版PL-9C靶试成功,同年8月外销型定型,之后转入软件细部优化和零件质量稳定性改进。总设计师金先仲亦因长年有 功于空空导弹研发,而荣获航空报国金奖。同年,还未定型的外销型少量出口巴基斯坦供空军测试,由于受美国军 售禁运影响,操作介面与巴军AIM-9P相同但性能领先半代的 PL-9C自然受到F-16机师的欢迎。据了解,PL-9的小双三角形鸭式舵就是参考巴方提供的AIM-9P,但外形差别较大。至于PL-9C的激光近炸引信,则有参考AIM-9P和其它国家提供的AIM-9L两个说法,不过最后都没有完全照抄,而国内版改进同样采纳了巴军经验。
    The domestic PL-9C succeeded in 2002, started to market for export in August of that year, the component quality and software improvements continued, It was given to PAF for some tests. PL-9C received the accolades of F-16 person in PAF.
      经改进后的PL-9C成为中国第一款采用激光近炸引信和数字技术的智能化格斗弹,综合性能优于美军现役主力AIM-9M,抗干扰和迎头探测能力高于俄著名的R-37M2,该项目因此荣获国家科技进步一等奖。国内版的抗干扰能力因软件更完善而有更佳表现,另有消息指空 导院预研多年的双色(红外线加紫外线) 导引头,已取代外销型的四单元红外导引头,令整体抗干扰能力更上一层楼,达到红外成像之前的点源红外导引头 最高水平。目前世界上除了美国FIM- 92RNP“毒刺”地空/空空导弹外,还没有像PL-9C这种同时具备可编程序软件加双色导引头的正规空空导弹,相信这是空导院的自主知识产权军品。另外值得注 意的是,PL-9C研制成功后,由于其导引头与PL-8具有互换性,能令后者性能大幅提升,这种升级版的型号就是目前主力的PL-8B。如果把国内版PL-9C的导引头模块用于PL-8B,性能会如何不难想像,由此可见,引进俄制R-73导弹根本无法取代国内西式导弹工业。
    PL-9C after improvement became China's first one to use digital technology and Laser proximity fuse's intelligent missile. It's combat capability is superior to AIM-9M. The ECM and seeker capability is superior to R-73M2. It uses dual color seeker? (red and purple?) Basically, PL-9C's seeker was put on PL-8, which caused the improved performance on PL-8. PL-8B is this version with this and is the main AAM in pla. basically, it's capability is superior to R-73.

    yeah, a lot of boasting here. I mean it's really hard to say which part is true and such.

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    FreeAsia2000 is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Chinese AAM

    Please see my post at

    Re: Pakistan considering to buy either Eurofighter or Typhoon in world affairs

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    tphuang's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese AAM

    more on this, from a chinese magazine, I will translate it later.
    空空导弹总师金先仲访谈录
      兵器知识2006.03

      编者按:自从中国研制的SD-10空空导弹,以及从空空导弹移植改进的DK9、"神弓"Ⅱ地空武器系统 亮相后,引起了广大军事爱好者的强烈反响,本刊特别就相关问题采访了中国空空导弹研究院资深专家金先仲,希 望给读者朋友们一个满意的答案。
    - talk about DK-9, the PL-9C SAM version?
    - "神弓"Ⅱ, what the heck it this? not into ground force at all
      金先仲,男,1939年出生,湖南长沙人,中共党员。1962年毕业于西北工业大学导弹控制专业,进入 中国空空导弹研究院工作,历任研究室主任、副院长、型号总师等职务。
      金先仲做为型号总设计师,负责国家高新工程某空空导弹系统研制。他创造性地采用嵌入式微型弹载计算机控 制方案,并实现了多元红外探测技术工程化应用,确定了导弹抗人为干扰的模式,使我国的红外空空导弹首次具有 抗红外诱铒干扰能力,同时大大增加了前向攻击距离,扩展了导弹对目标的攻击区,解决了研制过程中出现的重大 质量问题,使该导弹系统以五发五中的优异成绩通过国家鉴定,成为我国第一个完成设计定型的高新工程导弹武器 系统。此外,建立了科研与生产紧密结合的运行体制,实现了从设计定型到批量生产的无过渡转产-当年定型当年 批量交付。该型号获2004年国家科技进步一等奖及国防金奖,个人排名第一。
    - a little talk about the interview person's credential with Chinese AAM
      金先仲从事空空导弹研制工作四十多年来,获国家科技进步一等奖一项、二等奖一项、科学大会奖一项;省部 级科技进步一等奖二项、二等奖三项、三等奖二项;荣立省部级一等功二次、二等功一次。1992年起享受政府 特殊津贴。

      记者(以下简称记):现代空战提出了"先视、先射、先毁"的新概念,空空导弹如何适应这种 变化呢?
      金先仲(以下简称金):"三先"的概念是通过实际空战的经验和教训逐步总结出来的,具有强烈的攻防对抗 的含义。
      "先视",就是首先发现对方或是使对方晚些发现自己。目前,因为空空导弹的探测能力受到限制,仅仅依靠 空空导弹本身还达不到更远距离的探测,必须依靠先进的机载雷达、火控系统和空中、地面信息系统的支持,才能 获取远距离目标信息,并且向导弹传递目标信息数据,及早发现目标。同时采取降低飞机辐射能量和减小等效反射 面积的相应措施,推迟敌方发现自己的时间,才能实现"先视"。
      "先射"就是"先敌发射"导弹,这取决于飞机-导弹构成的武器系统跟踪、截获目标和发射导弹时序的快速 性,包括高速信息处理、数据传递、快速发控程序、导弹快速激活以及飞行员操作导弹的熟练程度等。实际上,需 要建立一个复杂的能够快速反应的人机系统,才能达到"先射"的要求。
      "先毁"就是能够快速地摧毁目标。实现这一要求,几乎完全依赖导弹本身是否具有良好的性能。飞行速度高 ,良好的机动性,能够快速接近目标;制导精度高,保证很小的脱靶量;对目标近场探测能力强,准确控制爆炸点 ,战斗部威力大等都是实现"先毁"的前提条件。
      目前发达国家已经装备第四代空空导弹,同时对飞机进行适应性改进,新一代空中武器平台基本具备了实现" 三先"的条件,并且正向模块化、系列化、通用化、智能化和高效能方向发展,以便能够满足"四代后"空中作战 平台的特殊要求。
      为了"先敌发现",美国AIM-120A的改进型AIM-120C导弹,采取了翼面折叠和舵面小型化设 计等措施,实现内埋式装载导弹,并为导弹换装新型导引头、战斗部和发动机,增大了导弹的跟踪精度、射程和杀 伤威力,机载电子系统也进行了适应性改进。近年美国投入使用的第四代红外格斗导弹AIM-9X,采用红外凝 视成像导引头、推力矢量控制装置和灵活的发射控制方式,使其在近距离攻击时具有"先视、先射" 的能力。
    - just talk about 3 firsts (first detect, first shoot and first destroy), important for AAM (obviously)
    - it talks about the improvement in amraam to first detect opponent, changed seeker, warhead and engine to improvement the guidance, range and kill power. of course, fight avionics also improves
    - also talk about AIM-9X using IIR + TVC engine + agile control (JHMCS?), give it the first detect and first shoot capability
      记:俄制R-77空空导弹与美国AIM-120孰优孰劣?
    compare R-77 to AIM-120
      金:从导弹布局、结构相比较,AIM-120的弹径比R-77小,重量比较轻,机动性要好一些,允许载 机载弹量大,在空战中具有一定优势。R-77导弹采用格栅舵有利于减少舵机功率,提高导弹的机动性,还可以 减小等效反射面积。在载机性能相当的空战中,R-77要优于AIM-120。
    in terms of structure, AMRAAM is smaller than R-77, lighter, so more manuverable, higher load, in air battle has certain advantage. R077 uses something? (no idea what it says) to improve manuverability, reduce RCS. When fighter ability is the same, R-77 > AMRAAM?
      R-77和AIM-120均采用复合制导,末制导都是主动雷达制导,工作波段均为Ku波段,因此这两种 导弹的制导性能基本相同。
    r-77 and amraam both use mixed guidance, terminal guidance are active, use ku band, the two's guidance is approximately the same
      R-77采用22千克的高能破片式战斗部,破片散布范围较大,引信与战斗部容易配合。但由于破片离散分 布,必须要有多个破片直接命中目标要害部位,才能有效将其击毁。AIM-120采用22千克的高能定向战斗 部,毁伤能量集中,杀伤效率高,但对引信适应性要求高。因此,AIM-120的杀伤效率要高于 R-77。
      AIM-120已经过几次空战的考验,取得了不错的战绩,目前尚未听说R-77导弹有过实 战案例。
    r-77 use 22KG warhead, AMRAAM also uses 22 kg warhead, due to the material, AMRAAM has better kill ratio than r-77, AMRAAM has achieved good result, haven't heard about r-77 being used in battle
      记:空空导弹在飞机上的挂载方式主要有外挂式、半埋式、保形式和内埋式四种。外挂式和内埋 式有何区别?
      金:外挂式是目前战斗机上普遍采用的武器装载方式,具有易于实现多种武器配置方案、良好的使用维护性以 及发射前易于截获目标等特点。但大量的外挂武器会产生很大的气动阻力,飞机难以实现超音速巡航。同时,外挂 物使飞机的雷达等效反射截面大幅度增加,隐身性能降低,导致载机容易暴露。
      内埋式是把武器装入机体内的挂载方式,其特点是隐身性好,飞机可以实现超音速巡航,提高载机的机动能力 ,但对飞机-导弹一体化设计提出了更高要求。美国的F/A-22、F-35,俄罗斯的米格1.44等四代机 都采用这种方式。内埋式机载武器的配置能够适应"先拦截,后格斗"的现代空战战术要求。
    talk about where AAMs are loaded onto. obviously, externally carried ones means less stealthy and more resistance --> not able to achieve supercruise.
      记:四代机采用内埋式挂载,如何确保机-弹分离的相容性?
      金:内埋式挂载武器是在容积有限的武器舱内紧凑地布置多个挂点,并且要求弹射参数可以调节,首先应当保 证机-弹分离的安全性,应当在打开舱门之后的极短时间内,将导弹弹射出去,并保持正确的姿态,避免与载机发 生干涉和碰撞。其次应当保证发射控制程序的准确性,内埋式挂载的中距拦射空空导弹采用弹射发射方式,一般是 "先弹射,后点火"。在发射时,导弹以10米/秒左右的速度和30~40g的过载被弹出武器舱,导弹低头穿 过气流在机体表面形成的附面层后,发动机点火,导弹按已输入的数据飞向目标。
      对于内埋式挂载的近距格斗红外空空导弹,一般采用可移动导轨发射方式,一般是"先露头,后点火",发射 时打开舱门,由作动器将导弹和滑轨的前部推出机身,导引头捕获目标,构成发射条件后,发动机点火,导弹从滑 轨上发射,发动机产生的烟雾由排焰装置排出弹舱外。
      在总体设计时,应保证弹舱、发射装置和导弹之间良好的相容性,为此,需要通过验证试验与改进设计迭代进 行,直到符合要求为止。
    talks about how you can store weapons internally. How to avoid problems and such
      记:台湾地区相继购买了AIM-120C、"米卡"、AIM-9M、"魔术"2等型号空空导弹,是否说 明其空战能力得到增强?
      金:在中距空空导弹方面,AIM-120C是世界上最先进的,经历了严格的试验和实战考验,到1999 年9月已累计生产了10000枚。到2000年初,试验和作战发射已达1327枚,成功率94%。AIM- 120C有多种改型,2000年出售给台湾的200枚AIM-120C属于较新型号。
      法国"米卡"导弹雷达型于1998年服役,红外型于1999年服役,也属于世界上最先进的空空导弹之一 。马特拉公司称它既具有"阿姆拉姆"那样的中距拦射性能,又具有"阿斯拉姆"那样的近距格斗性能。台湾订购 了雷达型"米卡"导弹960枚,红外型"米卡"240枚。
      可以看出,台湾所拥有的空空导弹武器在世界上属于先进行列,并且已经形成规模装备,对台湾空军的实力不 可掉以轻心。
    about taiwan, taiwan got 200 AIM-120C in 2000, among the latest models of C. It is the world's most advanced, tested AAM. Mica entered service in 1998, IR version in 1999, also among the world's leading AAM. Taiwan got 960 guided mica and 240 Infrared mica. clearly, Taiwan has some of the best AAMs in the world. Cannot lightly regard its air force.
      记:台湾的中山研究院研制了"天剑"系列空空导弹。请问该系列导弹的性能如何?
      金:"天剑"有1、2两个型号。"天剑"1是以美国"响尾蛇"AIM-9N为基础进行研制的,1989 年正式投产,1991年服役。"天剑"1导引头采用锑化铟红外致冷探测器,具有全向攻击能力,性能与大陆" 霹雳"9空空导弹相当。
      "天剑"2是台湾于80年代初研制的中距空空导弹,研制过程中选用了美国雷锡恩公司在"阿姆拉姆"导弹 竞标中落选的另一个方案。虽然有的专家认为它还不能完全达到主动雷达空空导弹的技术要求,但估计其性能与" 阿姆拉姆"导弹差距不大。
    about taiwan's indigenous AAMs. First TC-1, it's based on AIM-9N, entered service in 1991, similar to PL-9. TC-2 began development in 80s, in development, choose AMRAAM. experts think that it can't achieve fully the active guided AAM requirement.
      记:将空空导弹移植为地空型的前景如何?
      金:由于空空导弹是战术导弹中要求最高、研制难度最大的武器,这就使得它向其它领域移植的前景广阔。不 论从技术还是从效益方面考虑,空空导弹向地空型移植都是最简便易行的,这是因为它们对付的目标(飞机、导弹 )和作战使命(打击敌人、保护自身)基本相同。因此世界上许多国家和地区都在尝试将空空导弹移植为地空导弹 。
    what about AAM switch to SAM's possibility, AAM is the hardest in terms of all the missiles, so converting from AAM to SAM is very easy.
      记:移植时应注意什么?需要做大的改动吗?
      金:首先被移植的空空导弹应当是成熟的产品。其次,应当按照"面对空"作战环境条件要求构建这类导弹武 器系统,对于导弹本身需要进行适配性修改。例如缩小导弹翼展,以便适应箱式发射方式;增加发动机推力或加装 助推器,以便加大导弹的动力射程;为了与地面火控系统相适应,需要研制专用接口、装定目标分配 单元等等。
      在满足需要的情况下,对导弹应尽量不改或少改,因为任何工程更改都需要试验验证,这将加大移植费用,还 可能降低产品可靠性。
      关于移植过程中采用的发射座问题,对于地面机动作战部队防空,采用车载式底盘和倾斜导轨式发射架构成防 空导弹系统;对于舰艇防空,采用可转动发射座和导弹发射箱。

      记:请您谈一下国外空空导弹的移植情况?
    other countries' conversion
      金:美国在空空导弹向地空导弹的移植方面卓有成效,其中AIM-9"响尾蛇"、AIM-7"麻雀"、A IM-120是美国空空武器中的三枚"金蛋"。通过移植,美国把这三种武器的效能发挥到了极致,产生了巨大 的效益。
      AIM-72"小槲树"机动低空防空系统是从AIM-9D空空导弹移植而成的,已生产21700多枚, 向7个国家出口了4000多枚。根据作战需求,可以选择自行式、固定式和拖动式3种不同的运载方式,都采用 四联装倾斜式发射架组合,可同时安装4枚导弹,车上配备红外夜视系统和敌我识别系统。美国还推出了基于"响 尾蛇"的舰空型武器系统-"海小槲树"。
      RIM-7"海麻雀"是AIM-7导弹的舰空型,北约国家、日本、泰国、澳大利亚等国采用,当前生产型 号是RIM-7M和RIM-7P,已生产8000多枚,出口4000多枚。
      1988年,雷锡恩公司和休斯导弹公司开始研制在RIM-7基础上进一步改进的RIM-162"改进型 海麻雀"导弹,主要增强了下视、下射能力,加装了可脱离燃气舵控制系统。该项目由10个北约国家投资研制, 主要是为了能够打击类似SS-N-22的超音速反舰导弹。
      1996年美国陆军导弹司令部开始研究将AIM-120移植为地空系统,用于填补"毒刺"和"爱国者" 导弹之间的防御空域。该系统被定义为"高机动车载防空系统",是将5枚AIM-120导弹并排安装在"悍马 "越野车上构成的,主要用于在全天候条件下打击巡航导弹、固定翼飞机、直升机和无人机等目标。
      俄罗斯的温佩尔公司正在将R-73和R-77更改为地面发射型导弹。法国玛特拉公司将"米卡"导弹移植 为垂直发射型防空导弹系统,有地空型和舰空型两种型号。以色列将"怪蛇"5和"德比"导弹改为轻型防空系统 "斯派德"。
    AIM-9, AIM-7 and AIM-120 switch to SAM have all been fairly successful. the latest being AIM-120 on PAC
    Russia is making R-73 and R-77 into SAM, France is moving mica, Israel is making python 5 and derby

      记:中国空空导弹研究院在移植方面做了哪些尝试?
      金:空空导弹是我院的主导产品,因此我们具有从高端切入其它领域的优势。近年来,通过借鉴国外移植的技 术和经验,在空空导弹向地空弹移植方面进行了一些探索。例如将"霹雳"9、"霹雳"9C导弹移植为DK9地 空导弹,与35毫米高炮构成弹炮结合防空系统;将"天燕"90导弹移植为DK90地空导弹,与23毫米高炮 结合构成"神弓"Ⅱ武器系统等等。将空空导弹移植为地空导弹可以缩短新武器的研制周期,可节约研制成本,充 分发挥武器的效能,提高部队的战斗力。
    China's attempt have been converting PL-9C to DK-9. TY-90 to DK-90

      记:空空导弹移植为地空型导弹,最大的瓶颈是解决射程问题,DK-9C如何解决该问题?
      金:只有增加发动机总冲才能加大射程。这有两个途径,一是对已有发动机进行改进设计,增加装药量;另一 条路是加装助推发动机。
    the largest hurdle is the range, can only achieved by better engine. One can be increasing fuel or two is getting a higher thrusted engine
      记:"霹雳"9C导弹较"霹雳"9导弹进行了哪些改进?性能有何提高?
      金:"霹雳"9C采用了红外多元探测技术、降低噪声技术和智能化信息处理技术等,提高了探测灵敏度,增 加了探测距离,特别是迎头探测距离,实现了真正意义上的全向攻击。由于采用了弹载微型计算机和系统软件能够 抗多种红外干扰,所以"霹雳"9C导弹较"霹雳"9导弹性能有很大提升。
    PL-9C compared to PL-9, what kind of improvement?
    PL-9C uses bla blah blah, just basically lowering sound, higher intelligence, higher detecting power, improved seeker distance.
      记:"霹雳"9C在抗干扰方面采取了哪些措施?它有改进型号吗?
      金:抗干扰方面简而言之是依靠多元探测、高速信息处理和复杂的运算软件。"霹雳"9C目前的改进型号有 DK9C地空导弹。
    - ECM improvement is due to multi-band seeker, higher speed data processing and complex processing software, PL-9C's SAM is called DK-9C

  4. #4
    tphuang's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese AAM

    interesting enough, today I was browsing through Chinese forum and one of the elders mentionned that PL-8 has a version that uses imaged infrared seeker
    http://www.war-sky.com/forum/read.php?tid=200229&page=2

    Anyway, so I got interested in this and did a little search on pl-8 and 成像 (form image) and found the first article in this thread again
    http://news.163.com/06/0314/16/2C6HLJB000011MSH_2.html
    after reading it again, I realized I previously missed the part on a dual-spectra seeker on PL-8

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    Re: Chinese AAM

    The following URL contains a patent filed in 1998 titled, " Infrared seeker head for target seeking missile". The description may require highly detailed study.

    Infrared seeker head for target seeking missile

    The first sentence of its abstract is as follows, "An infrared seeker head for target tracking missiles has a main detector and an imaging optical system generating an image of a field of view on the main detector."

    The above URL was generated when I searched for "Image Infrared seeker", whose meaning was not understood by me.

  6. #6
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    Re: Chinese AAM

    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang
    interesting we never had a thread on this before, anyhow, this is a nice little article on PL-8 and PL-9C

    武器纵横:中国新型霹雳格斗导弹定型
    new PL missile getting certified
    2006年03月12日 10:03 军事文摘

      以色列怪蛇为蓝本[虚幻天空]
    started off with python
      为尽快缩小与外国差距,1982年中国国防工业部门开始论证引进新型空空导弹。
    in 1982, China decided to import new AAM
      当年刚投入黎巴嫩空战的以色列怪蛇III50枚命中的优异战绩引起中方注意,斥资5亿美元向以色列拉斐 尔公司采购1500枚怪蛇III导弹,并引进生产线,于1989年获得生产许可证,命名为PL-8,PL为霹雳的汉语拼音首字母。这种第三代空空导弹成为中国20世纪90年代至今空军近战的主力武器,与 首期投资32.5亿人民币的十号工程(歼十)、5.5亿美元的八二工程(与美合作改良歼8B战斗机、涡扇九 发动机生产线及研发飞豹战轰机)等,成为80年代国家四大重点军备工程。这些引进和合作对于加强解放军航空 兵战斗力和借鉴西方标准化起了巨大的作用,其影响是远非引进俄制SU-27SK和SU- 30MKK战机所能取代的。
    That year, Israel's python3's performance in Lebanon battle really caught the attention of Chinese. It paid 500 million to Rafale for 1500 Python 3 and including a production line. It got this in 1989. It called the missile PL-8. This becomes China's main Short ranged AAM from 90s onward. Including the initial investment into J-10 project which cost 3.2 billion yuan and J-8II which cost 550 million dollar, they are China's main air force programs in the 80s.
      PL-8由西安东方机械厂大批生产,其生产线是全国工程化实力最强、质量最为可靠的。该生产线除了生产 PL-8和PL-9空空导弹外,也承接其它军工产品。PL-8/怪蛇III的知名度也许稍逊于同代的美国AIM-9L响尾蛇导弹,然而除个别零件外,其整体性能并不逊色于后者。中国在20世纪90年代初曾从友好国家弄到 一批AIM-9L,由于其接口与PL-8相同,可不经改装直接试射,结果表明最重要性能之一的不可逃逸区小于PL-8。这一点美国人比中国人更明白,2001年王伟座机被美军撞毁后,美军播出之前的录像,特别强 调PL-8“严重威胁美军飞行员安全”,可见,美军的格斗导弹从性能而言并无优势
    PL-8 started mass Production in a factory in Xian. This is China's most reliable production line. Outside of PL-8 and PL-9 production, it also did other military products. PL-8 is slightly superior to AIM-9L. China got some AIM-9L from friendly countries in early 90s. Due to the same attachment, China can test fire these missiles without changes. The result is that the NEZ of AIM-9 is less than PL-8. Even Americans praised the quality of PL-8.
      PL-8最小射程500米,最大射程15公里,最大使用高度20公里,最大速度2.5马赫,最大过载35g,导引 头最大离轴发射角20度;引信采用发动雷达加触发式,作用距离7~10米;破片式弹头铸有2500颗钢珠, 杀伤半径13米,重11公斤;全弹重120公斤,弹长3米,弹径157毫米,翼展 0.86米,是世界上出色的第三代红外格斗导弹。
    PL-8's minimum distance is 500m, maximum is 15KM, max altitude is 20KM and speed is mach2.5, load is 35g, seeker's off boresight is 20 degrees. The seeker has 2500 (something), kill radius is 13 meters, weighs 11 kg, the entire missile weighs 120KM, 3 meter long, wing is 0.86 m
      被军方称为八号弹的PL-8,以操作简单、维护简易、性能优异、可靠实用而获得好评。
      20世纪90年代初在消化PL-8技术的基础上,中国空空导弹研究院推出了试验用的PL-8H护卫舰舰载型导弹,后来又研制出改良型导弹PL-8B。
    After absorbing PL-8's technology, China first tested PL-8H the shipborn version and then later developed the improved PL-8B
      PL-8B与PL-8外形最大不同是寻标器头罩玻璃以非透明材料制作。1993年PL-8B定型靶试成功,翌年开始服役,目前在役的大部分是这种国产型。由于服役后没出过一次质量问题,空军对其 质量可靠性非常满意,因此亦获得技术兵器罕见的免检待遇。
    biggest difference bw PL-8B and PL-8 is the seeker
      八号工程从以色列引进的不光是技术,更重要的是完整的当代先进生产流程和优良的质量管理体系,后者的影 响远超出PL-8和导弹行业本身,它令中国军工产业潜移默化与西方接轨,其深层意义远超一般人所想像。
    It's not just the technology, but also the advanced production and quality system that has really impacted China's military complexes.
      抗电子干扰能力超群
    ECM capability
      作为国产第三代空空导弹的第一种产品,PL-9可视作PL-8的中国兄弟。PL-9是由中国空空导弹研究院已故大师董秉印任总设计师,1986年开始研制,1988年投产。
    PL-9 is the brother of PL-8. Started development in 86 and finished in 88
      在设计过程中空导院逐步吸收以色列技术,例如其寻标器基本沿用后者的氟致冷锑化铟探测器,弹身、弹径、 弹长、弹重也几乎相同,使用高度和过载亦一样,只是尾翼和前舵有别。外形较接近AIM-9L和PL-5C,但弹体前后舱段设计则与法国的魔术I/PL-7相似,不过自动搜索截获能力、机动性及离轴发射能力、毁伤概率高于PL-7,单发命中率80%,与AIM-9L/M相当。PL-9有定轴(寻标器)扫描跟踪、定轴瞄准、雷达随动瞄准及头盔瞄准具跟踪四种方式。PL-9于1995年开始改进设计,1997年开始靶试。与改进前比较最大区别是把模拟信号升级为数字信号,主要 表现在软件编程,要改变参数只需通过接口更换软件即可,红外线导引头也由单元式改为四单元。这样一改就等于 导弹内部换了一代,全弹性能提升半代,新型号称为PL-9C。
    PL-9 uses Israeli technology, the exterior is similar to AIM-9L and PL-5C, but the design is similar to PL-7/Magic. Performance is superior to PL-7, with a hit rate of 80%. This is similar to AIM-9L/M. PL-9's improved version started design in 95 and started testing in 1997. The biggest improvement is the digital processing, software, the infrared seeker went from one to 4 parts, this is called PL-9C
      PL-9C翼展0.81米,弹重123公斤,弹头重12公斤,导引头最大离轴发射角30度,采用激光近炸引信,最 大速度2.5马赫,最大射程16公里,最大使用过载40g。
    PL-9C's off boresight is 30 degrees, max range is 16KM, load is 40g, speed is mach2.5, mass is 123 KG and warhead is 12KG.
      身价近百万的PL-9C,使用时与PL-5E形成高低档搭配,其出色的抗干扰能力尤其值得称道。
    It forms a hi-lo combination with PL-5E
      首先,无线电引信换成激光近炸引信,提高了电子战条件下的命中率。在抗背景干扰方面,该弹能向贴地低飞 的目标,包括巡航导弹作有效攻击,甚至可攻击在地面刚开始发动而未起飞的飞机。

      弹体内增加了DMP芯片,是PL-8/PL-9难以比拟的,以前若敌机改变红外线干扰弹投放规律,中国军方必须更换硬件即弹上逻辑固态电路板才能有效抗 衡,效率极低。PL-9C只要以地面检测设备通过接口,把根据红外线干扰弹新投放规律建立数学模型的新算法输入弹上电脑即可马上 重上战场,故被空导院形象地称为柔性化、智慧化导弹。

      根据一般常识,导弹性能提高1倍,战机综合作战效能提高4次方即16倍,若再配合头盔瞄准具或者改进雷 达、火控系统,系统效能还能再提高2~4倍。即使落后的歼七、歼八战机,装备了该型导弹亦有能力在近战时击 败F-15和F-16等强一代飞机,这对经费不足、整体空战效能改善长路漫漫的中国航空兵来说极具吸引力。
    It simply talks about the improved performance of PL-9 here.
      可与美军“毒刺”相匹敌

      1999年3月,PL-9C样机抗干扰演示大获成功,军委决定将其从外销型纳入国家重点型号,命名为III型导弹,以区别于代号Ⅰ 型的PL-8和Ⅱ型的PL-9。
    The PL-9C's ECM capability really did well in 99.
      2001年秋,作适应性改良的国内版在西北靶场两枚试射失败,之后进行了5个月攻关共解决十多处隐患。 期间董秉印总设计师因积劳成疾不幸英年早逝,由今年65岁的金先仲接任总设计师,年轻的梁晓庚则自1997 年秋已担任副总设计师。
    The improved deomstic version fire twice in 2001 and had setbacks.
      2002年春,国内版PL-9C靶试成功,同年8月外销型定型,之后转入软件细部优化和零件质量稳定性改进。总设计师金先仲亦因长年有 功于空空导弹研发,而荣获航空报国金奖。同年,还未定型的外销型少量出口巴基斯坦供空军测试,由于受美国军 售禁运影响,操作介面与巴军AIM-9P相同但性能领先半代的 PL-9C自然受到F-16机师的欢迎。据了解,PL-9的小双三角形鸭式舵就是参考巴方提供的AIM-9P,但外形差别较大。至于PL-9C的激光近炸引信,则有参考AIM-9P和其它国家提供的AIM-9L两个说法,不过最后都没有完全照抄,而国内版改进同样采纳了巴军经验。
    The domestic PL-9C succeeded in 2002, started to market for export in August of that year, the component quality and software improvements continued, It was given to PAF for some tests. PL-9C received the accolades of F-16 person in PAF.
      经改进后的PL-9C成为中国第一款采用激光近炸引信和数字技术的智能化格斗弹,综合性能优于美军现役主力AIM-9M,抗干扰和迎头探测能力高于俄著名的R-37M2,该项目因此荣获国家科技进步一等奖。国内版的抗干扰能力因软件更完善而有更佳表现,另有消息指空 导院预研多年的双色(红外线加紫外线) 导引头,已取代外销型的四单元红外导引头,令整体抗干扰能力更上一层楼,达到红外成像之前的点源红外导引头 最高水平。目前世界上除了美国FIM- 92RNP“毒刺”地空/空空导弹外,还没有像PL-9C这种同时具备可编程序软件加双色导引头的正规空空导弹,相信这是空导院的自主知识产权军品。另外值得注 意的是,PL-9C研制成功后,由于其导引头与PL-8具有互换性,能令后者性能大幅提升,这种升级版的型号就是目前主力的PL-8B。如果把国内版PL-9C的导引头模块用于PL-8B,性能会如何不难想像,由此可见,引进俄制R-73导弹根本无法取代国内西式导弹工业。
    PL-9C after improvement became China's first one to use digital technology and Laser proximity fuse's intelligent missile. It's combat capability is superior to AIM-9M. The ECM and seeker capability is superior to R-73M2. It uses dual color seeker? (red and purple?) Basically, PL-9C's seeker was put on PL-8, which caused the improved performance on PL-8. PL-8B is this version with this and is the main AAM in pla. basically, it's capability is superior to R-73.

    yeah, a lot of boasting here. I mean it's really hard to say which part is true and such.
    the missile seeker use 4 element IndSb IR seeker.it possess dual "color" infran red and ultra violet (IR/UV)
    (4 element? AIm-9L, Magic-2 all use 64 element InSb seeker.)
    according to the article,the missile seeker possess "aim-point" capability,at the moment the target was "lock" it can not be decoyed by flares.

  7. #7
    chicket9 is offline New Member
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    Re: Chinese AAM

    I think Chinese AAM technology (and missiles in general) has come a long way since the 80s.

    You would say 'DUH'...but considering even up to the early 90s, the PLAAF only had basically the PL-2 and crap versions of PL-5.

    Now you got quite a deadly mix of PL-5E, PL-8, PL-9 and AA-11, all comparable and potent to current Russiand and Western models...

    Now there is also a medium range niche filled with PL-11, SD-10, AA-12, AA-10.

    Also the general lack of PGMs has now been filled with KH-29, KH-59, indigenous and Russian LGBs, YJ-8K, YJ-91, KH-31, etc...compared to say only the availability of air launched variants of SS-N-2 Styx models and rockets and bombs.

    I really hate it how books concerning military hardware in book stores have literally no existence of any Chinese designed weapons...eg, a missile book would only have token mention of China copying the AA-2 Atoll, or in a tank book, only the entries of Type 69 (Type 96 if lucky).

    Hopefully military books in the next 20 years will be different...I would like to see more Chinese entries or at least the acknowledgement of them in many military books.

  8. #8
    AssassinsMace's Avatar
    AssassinsMace is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese AAM

    Before I got access to the internet, the only info I got on Chinese military was from Western news sources which basically was none. I remember reading that the PLAAF was falling apart because their fighter airframes were old. When I got access to the internet, it was like seeing a whole new world. It's no different today and most Westerners think nothing of China's military except to used to scare Congress into more money for the military. But generally Westerners believe China still has a Korean War era military. Even in other military forums, there are still people who believe that. But even people who don't still are at least three years behind on Chinese hardware. The worst still believe the 052C is fake and doesn't exist. Before the Wen Ho Lee scandal, I'd hear all the time people making statements like, "If China ever got 'the bomb,' they would start World War III." Even Richard Fisher is the last to know. How much info in his reports have been circulating on the internet long before he gives the big reveal to the American public? Even American politicians are ignorant. A couple years ago, a congressional delegation made their first trip to China. They obviously had a primitive view of China because when they returned from their trip, they sounded alarm bells that China was a threat. Why? Not because they were treated unfairly or saw an aggressive display of the military. It was because they visited Beijing and Shanghai and saw how modern it was. What did they expect? People living in straw huts along dirt roads?

  9. #9
    sumdud's Avatar
    sumdud is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese AAM

    The PL-5E is a definite success. It is probably the best of all SRAAMs without HMS support or VTC. It has better degree of vision, manuverability, and is light.

    And it is amazing how fast China is at growing its BVR capability.

    China has never had a radar-guided missile until the mid 80s, and it wasn't until the late 90s that China deployed its 1st BVRAAM, the PL-11. Then in last than 10 years, we are now talking about the PL-12!

    I want Asia on my front porch and America as my backyard.
    Disclaimer: By America, I meant the Continent. And yes, I know Asian homes have neither a backyard nor a porch in the American sense.

  10. #10
    PrOeLiTeZ is offline Member
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    Air-To-Air Missiles

    Since there isn't a thread specifically designated for China's air-to-air missiles I'd start one.

    Discuss and air-to-air missiles within PLAAF and PLANAF arsenal, and proposal of upgrades to existing missiles or completly new ones.

    Future upgrade would be to:
    >Extend range to 100km
    >Further jam resistance and resillance
    >Increase probability of hit and accuracy
    >Lighten the structure
    >Develop a smaller variant in order for the missile to fit into future J-XX internal bays

    New designation new for this maybe SD-10B?

  11. #11
    utelore's Avatar
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    Re: Air-To-Air Missiles

    I think the PRC is fine with its current BVR and IR Missile. I think jamming and ECM will be a problem on the battlefield for both sides and will be overlapping.

    I think we need to back away from just one system winning wars but the strategy combined with the 360o way war will be fought the a Hi tech power like the PRC.

    JH-7 hunting ships, Su-27/30/J-10-hunting every thing, ships-shooting everything, land based missile-shooting everything.

    The lower tech J-811 running mach 2.4 intercept runs, Drones, Harpy and things we don't even no about. as I said before this would be a very cluttered battle-space.

  12. #12
    sumdud's Avatar
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    Re: Air-To-Air Missiles

    China doesn't need a new LRAAM, it needs a SRAAM. The PL-5s are mostly Bs and Cs, which are no good.(Es are fine, however, but China apparently doesn't use them.)

    The biggest surprise I have about China's SRAAMs are their reported speed. At just Mach 2, it is fine for large planes, but I don't think it will fare with most fighter jets.

    I want Asia on my front porch and America as my backyard.
    Disclaimer: By America, I meant the Continent. And yes, I know Asian homes have neither a backyard nor a porch in the American sense.

  13. #13
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    Re: Air-To-Air Missiles

    PL-8 and PL-9 aren't up to par with the latest 4.5-5th generation missile standard.
    R-73 Archer are adequite.

    A image infrared seeker,
    dual digital signal processor,
    directional infrared counter measure,
    focal plane array and thrust vectoring
    are just a few requirement need for a future IR missile.
    Last edited by dh19440113; 12-13-2007 at 04:08 PM.

  14. #14
    crobato's Avatar
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    Re: Air-To-Air Missiles

    Quote Originally Posted by sumdud View Post
    China doesn't need a new LRAAM, it needs a SRAAM. The PL-5s are mostly Bs and Cs, which are no good.(Es are fine, however, but China apparently doesn't use them.)

    The biggest surprise I have about China's SRAAMs are their reported speed. At just Mach 2, it is fine for large planes, but I don't think it will fare with most fighter jets.
    PL-8, based on its Python 3 ancestor, should be Mach 3 (Python 3 spec). R-73 is slower, at Mach 2.2, but it has greater range.

  15. #15
    crobato's Avatar
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    Re: Air-To-Air Missiles

    Quote Originally Posted by dh19440113 View Post
    PL-8 and PL-9 aren't up to par with the latest 4.5-5th generation missile standard.
    R-73 Archer are adequite.

    A image infrared seeker,
    dual digital signal processor,
    directional infrared counter measure,
    focal plane array and thrust vectoring
    are just a few requirement need for a future IR missile.
    True, current PLAAF SRAM is about a generation behind, though much improved with multispectral array and liquid nitrogen cooling.

    R-73 is okay, and it gets better with a touted upgrade. Don't know if the PlAAF bought the latest midlife upgrade but they might.

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