China Flanker Thread II

[SinoSoldier]

tremendously more powerful engines? what engine is that? WS-10 on the J-11B produces 125 kN of thrusts compared to the 122 kN of the basic AL-31F (don't get confused with the original 132 kN value). In contrast the AL-41F1A of the Su-35 produces 142 kN of max thrust. Not to mention the 3D TVC. Su-35 also has at least 2 extra hardpoints. Su-35 empty weight has not been officially disclosed so cannot say anything about weight reduction.

You are referring to the base WS-10, which did not enter service with the military. The "A" variant, used by the J11B and J15, produces 132 kN of thrust.

---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

J-11B is just an updated Flanker, because the original Su-27 was really outdated,
think of it as a Chinese SKM upgrade equivalent
combined with their large size, those birds are probably more useful for pilot training/hours than anything else

some people really think the J-11B is on par with the Su-35
personally i don't think so, or to be fair we don't know for sure

the only aspect where J-11B can be superior is perhaps AESA radar and the proof for that is highly questionable (a single brochure)
which is ironical, because again the original Su-27 Chinese get was terribly bad at that

can the J-10 beat the old Flankers, no doubt bout that

The Su35 is an updated Flanker as well. The upgrades themselves define the differences between the J11B and other Flankers. The J11B is pretty much a Chinese answer to the Su35, with similar upgrades to its fuselage, avionics, powerplant, and weaponry. Both planes feature phased array radar, radar absorbent material, composites, upgraded engines, and while not all of these are done to the same extent, the planes would be generally in the same league.

[Engineer]

The J11B is anything but an old Su27. The J11B incorporates tremendously more powerful engines as well as weight reduction. Aerodynamically wise, aside from the more powerful engines and thrust vectoring, the Su35 does not possess any advantage over the J11B seeing that the fuselages of both planes evolved from the Su27.

Once again, if rumors regarding Shenyang's incompetence are true, there would no weight reduction on the J-11B as compared to original Su-27.

[Air Force Brat]

[QUOTE=escobar;190268]An engineering unit of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force has modified aircraft to make them adapted to the plateau environment in Tibet. The unit also wrote special plateau operations manuals to improve the aircraft maintenance work.

Beautifull pictures, thanks for posting, and as you noted as your density altitude goes up you have to either reduce takeoff weights and associated fitment or allow for longer take-off and landing rolls, and decreased climb performance.

[escobar]

nice pics(tibet)

[paintgun]

The Su35 is an updated Flanker as well. The upgrades themselves define the differences between the J11B and other Flankers. The J11B is pretty much a Chinese answer to the Su35, with similar upgrades to its fuselage, avionics, powerplant, and weaponry. Both planes feature phased array radar, radar absorbent material, composites, upgraded engines, and while not all of these are done to the same extent, the planes would be generally in the same league.

i am eager to know what are your specifics on the J-11B upgrades from the J-11/vanilla Su-27

[Lion]

Once again, if rumors regarding Shenyang's incompetence are true, there would no weight reduction on the J-11B as compared to original Su-27.

I don't think so, if it really that bad, it will not enter service in significant number. Remember the CCTV news reporting the J -11B RCS , fuselage coated with RAM and significant weight reduction. Radar is capable of air to air and air to ground mode. Reported by a PLAAF pilot who flow it.

J-11B is definitely superior to old Su-27SK.

[Lion]

I don't think so, if it really that bad, it will not enter service in significant number. Remember the CCTV news reporting the J -11B RCS , fuselage coated with RAM and significant weight reduction. Radar is capable of air to air and air to ground mode. Reported by a PLAAF pilot who flow it.

J-11B is definitely superior to old Su-27SK.

Lets recall old news

UqtMi.jpg

Stealth improvement.

RCS 15m 2 reduce to 4m 2

Composite used.

nhXmR.jpg

Airframe lifespan increased to 10000hrs

Radar capable of tracking 20 target and engage 6 of them

700kg weight reduction compare to old Su-27SK

Air to ground capability added

Finally... this is reported from CCTV. So this informations are approved by PLA armed forces. It can also mean semi- official data of J-11B.

Conclusion is the recent exercise of J-11B badly maul by other types of aircraft has nothing to do with J-11b ability, rather the incompetence PLAAF pilot who flew it.

[Air Force Brat]

[QUOTE=escobar;190334]nice pics(tibet)

Absolutely beautifull, always nice to see these little sweethearts in their element, the Flanker is a gorgeous airplane and I'm sure these chicks are up to snuff, the comparison between Flankers and F-16s or J-10s is still an apples and oranges deal, and the reason the PLAAF has both in its inventory, and the reason that when the J-20 achieves IOC, it will be "added to the set", rather than supercede anything else immediately. To base an opinion on one set of circumstances isn't fair to either the aircraft or the pilots, they all have their strengths and weaknesses, if I were to be in a position to fly any thing in the PLAAF inventory, it would likely be J-11B. The reason many AF pilots choose to stay with the F-15 rather than move up to the F-22, when they had the opportunity.

[paintgun]

Lets recall old news



Finally... this is reported from CCTV. So this informations are approved by PLA armed forces. It can also mean semi- official data of J-11B.

Conclusion is the recent exercise of J-11B badly maul by other types of aircraft has nothing to do with J-11b ability, rather the incompetence PLAAF pilot who flew it.

or PLA release such news so that western defense analyst can giggle in front of their monitors saying PLAAF pilots are that bad after all

[Lion]

or PLA release such news so that western defense analyst can giggle in front of their monitors saying PLAAF pilots are that bad after all

Probably those on J-11B pilot are on par with western pilot while those flying J-11A and J-10 are on god's level mode. :P

[Air Force Brat]

or PLA release such news so that western defense analyst can giggle in front of their monitors saying PLAAF pilots are that bad after all

Yes kinda of like the bad politics that killed the F-22 production in favor of an F-35 thats good enough, a little interservice rivalry can go a long way toward elimination of the best elements, that each service could bring to the fight. The Army, Marines, and to some extent, even the navy are more interested in a Strike Aircraft with some A2A, rather than an Air Superiority Fighter with some A2G. IMHO

Its one of the by products of having independant services all vying for a bigger piece of an ever shrinking pie, but in our case having civilian leadership in power over the services has worked out reasonably well all things considered.

[SinoSoldier]

i am eager to know what are your specifics on the J-11B upgrades from the J-11/vanilla Su-27

As far as I know the J11B incorporates a new radar, the original one being a PD radar, but it is rumored AESA is installed. Other upgrades include radar absorbent material near the intakes and composites that reduce its weight by over 700 kg. A new engine is installed as well as a missile warning approach and IRST. A new OBOG system is installed. The cockpit differs from the Su-30 and Su-27SMK due to its asymmetric nature and its large upgraded LCD screens. Dielectric panels are also installed on the stabilizers. Essentially the airframe design is the only link between the J11B and the Su27, with the internal systems completely different.

[MiG-29]

As far as I know the J11B incorporates a new radar, the original one being a PD radar, but it is rumored AESA is installed. Other upgrades include radar absorbent material near the intakes and composites that reduce its weight by over 700 kg. A new engine is installed as well as a missile warning approach and IRST. A new OBOG system is installed. The cockpit differs from the Su-30 and Su-27SMK due to its asymmetric nature and its large upgraded LCD screens. Dielectric panels are also installed on the stabilizers. Essentially the airframe design is the only link between the J11B and the Su27, with the internal systems completely different.

Among the Su-35 design features, worth of note is the absence of an overhead brake flap, a standard characteristic of the Su-27. Its functions are performed by an active rudder. The Su-35 chassis has been reinforced because of the increased takeoff and landing weight of the aircraft. For the same reason, the front bearing has two wheels. The improved radar stealth reduces the reflectance of the Su-35 in the X radio waveband and in the angle range of ±60°.




Irbis-E radar detects air targets with an absolute cross section of 3 m2 on a head-on course at a range of up to 400 km

Sukhoi Company (JSC) - Airplanes - Military Aircraft - Su-35

there are a few new features not present on Su-27s that have been added on Su-35, J-10B is a logic evolution, since Su-35 also has been improved

[escobar]

J-11BS or Su-30???

[SinoSoldier]

J-11BS or Su-30???

It's likely to be a MKK. Perhaps a J-11BS but we haven't seen them in this kind of camo before.

---------- Post added at 10:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

Among the Su-35 design features, worth of note is the absence of an overhead brake flap, a standard characteristic of the Su-27. Its functions are performed by an active rudder. The Su-35 chassis has been reinforced because of the increased takeoff and landing weight of the aircraft. For the same reason, the front bearing has two wheels. The improved radar stealth reduces the reflectance of the Su-35 in the X radio waveband and in the angle range of ±60°.




Irbis-E radar detects air targets with an absolute cross section of 3 m2 on a head-on course at a range of up to 400 km

Sukhoi Company (JSC) - Airplanes - Military Aircraft - Su-35

there are a few new features not present on Su-27s that have been added on Su-35, J-10B is a logic evolution, since Su-35 also has been improved

The Su35 obviously makes changes to its original skin to meet its mission requirements. Their internal configuration and systems are completely new. What I was trying to say is that the J11B is like the Chinese equivalent of the Su35. Both are upgrades of the Su27 to meet requirements of the twenty first century.