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China Flanker thread

This is a discussion on China Flanker thread within the Air Force forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; Its too blurry or lack high resolution detail to make out the missile, or the J-11BS vs. Su-30MKK characteristics....

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Old 11-28-2007   #526
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Re: China Flanker thread

Its too blurry or lack high resolution detail to make out the missile, or the J-11BS vs. Su-30MKK characteristics.
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Old 11-28-2007   #527
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Question Re: China Flanker thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by crobato View Post
Its too blurry or lack high resolution detail to make out the missile, or the J-11BS vs. Su-30MKK characteristics.
Hmmm ... I'm not sure and therefore tried to enlarge and sharpen them.
Iin the firts picture we can clearly see the grey corners of the tail and strange nose-marking suggesting a Chinese Flanker - also it looks yellow but that could be due to lighting conditions and also if the radome is black ???. Quite strange it seems as the wing has one additional pylon.
For the second picture I would say it has the larger squared fins (IMO) ... so are both aircraft the same or not ???

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Old 11-29-2007   #528
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Re: China Flanker thread

Corner patches on the elevators are also found in the MKK, but not in the Su-27SK, so having the dark corner patches can either mean MKK or J-11. If the wing has one additional pylon it can be an MKK but who knows if the J-11BS has been modified as well. Yellow color would lean it to a brand new J-11 and so will a black nose. The MKK's rear fins are not larger than that of the UBK, just squared off. The two seater tail fins are larger than the single seater's in general so an indication of size on that part only means two seater but which two seater?
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Old 11-29-2007   #529
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Re: China Flanker thread

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Originally Posted by crobato View Post
Corner patches on the elevators are also found in the MKK, but not in the Su-27SK, so having the dark corner patches can either mean MKK or J-11. If the wing has one additional pylon it can be an MKK but who knows if the J-11BS has been modified as well. Yellow color would lean it to a brand new J-11 and so will a black nose. The MKK's rear fins are not larger than that of the UBK, just squared off. The two seater tail fins are larger than the single seater's in general so an indication of size on that part only means two seater but which two seater ?
That's the most interesting thing ... besides that strange missile (maybe a Kh-59 ???)

Thanks for that ... never noticed that the MKK also had these darker squares; I thought it's a typical feature onyl found on China-produced J-11.

Regarding the height of both two-seater I'm not sure - have to check some drawings - ... I agree that the UB's tail is also higher than a SK's tail, but as the MKK is actually a hybrid-type with many features from the Su-27M it has - in contrast to the Indian MKI - the taller + squared M's tail.


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Old 11-29-2007   #530
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Re: China Flanker thread

The squared tail of the MKK seems to give the impression that its taller than the tail of the UBK or the MKI, but in reality, looking at the side drawings, they're the same height as the clipped fins of the other two seaters. The MKI also has the corner patches, but they seem to have a lighter color than that of the J-11s. I suspect these patches are a kind of aerial signal receiver.
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Old 11-29-2007   #531
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Re: China Flanker thread

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Originally Posted by crobato View Post
The squared tail of the MKK seems to give the impression that its taller than the tail of the UBK or the MKI, but in reality, looking at the side drawings, they're the same height as the clipped fins of the other two seaters. The MKI also has the corner patches, but they seem to have a lighter color than that of the J-11s. I suspect these patches are a kind of aerial signal receiver.
Just had some time to do a comparison ... You are right with the height, but otherwise I didn't know that there are so many changes !

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Old 12-15-2007   #532
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Re: China Flanker thread

what is maximum range of type-1473 radar?
according to back issue of air international,max. tange of SU-27SK's N-1001 radar is 165km. tracking range 80km.
for the F-15A 185km.
and why is when western source usually provide both search and tracking range for the soviet airborne radar, while never mention tracking range for US make radar.?
Is tracking range refering to illumination range?
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Old 12-15-2007   #533
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Re: China Flanker thread

Allegedly the range is about 160km (some say up to 180km). I don't know if this is tracking range or not, I think this is search distance, while tracking range may depend on the RCS of the target. My presumption is that the tracking range is between 80 to 120km depending on the RCS of popular fighters.
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Old 12-15-2007   #534
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Re: China Flanker thread

I find all these range quotes to be rather difficult to compare, considering they depend on at least two and probably more variables: what the target RCS is and what the miss rate per unit time is. For tracking, this gets even more blurred. What exactly do you mean by tracking? As in, to what accuracy and confidence?
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Old 12-15-2007   #535
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Re: China Flanker thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by challenge View Post
what is maximum range of type-1473 radar?
according to back issue of air international,max. tange of SU-27SK's N-1001 radar is 165km. tracking range 80km.
for the F-15A 185km.
and why is when western source usually provide both search and tracking range for the soviet airborne radar, while never mention tracking range for US make radar.?
Is tracking range refering to illumination range?
150 km vs 3 sqm targets according to the J-10 avionics developer guy. For su-27sk, search range is generally for searching much larger targets I think. We do have detection range for modern western fighters. For example, APG-77 is said to be able to track 1 m^2 targets at 170 to 190 km.
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Old 12-15-2007   #536
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Re: China Flanker thread

This was what I always presume it to be the tracking range is roughly half of the max range of radar, for a RCS of <5m^2 such as a J-7.
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Old 12-29-2007   #537
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Re: China Flanker thread

Also, some fresh news from HKB, aerospace daily. This is news from SAC, looks like it's about the naval J-11 or J-11BS

Quote:
日前,备受人们关注的新研项目飞鸡顺利通过公司评审组评审,交付试飞站,这标志着这个型号飞鸡研制生产取得 了重大进展。
自8月下旬新型号飞鸡正式投入总装生产以来,在技术协调问题较多,工作条件简陋,质量要求高的情况下,总装 厂领导班子打破常规,攻坚克难,着力提高生产能力,在装配技术,实物质量上下功夫,不仅使每日工作内容逐步 增加,而且产品质量也得到了保证。在新研飞鸡总装中,厂里成立现场工作团队,由工艺,调度,工段,维护,检 验等部门抽调专人负责研制生产。组织员工两班倒,计划按小时排,能提前1分钟决不耽误60秒。 。。
It talks about a new plane finishing the review and is delivered to the flight test station. This is a huge progress for this type of plane. The plane was first assembled in the end of August. They had to do a lot of tests to prepare it for flight test.

Last edited by tphuang; 12-29-2007 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 01-08-2008   #538
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Re: China Flanker thread

from avic1 on J-11B, well sort of, news from SAC
http://www.avic1.com.cn/chinese/xwzx...20080104_1.htm
Basically, the importance of this article is that it mentions J-11B finally successfully completed the certification review in 2007 and the engine it uses (WS-10A) passed design certification in Dec 2005. It mentions a bunch of other stuff, but in general, just another confirmation that J-11B is now in service.
Quote:
团结协作 创新篇章

http://www.avic1.com.cn  2008/01/04


  55载雪雨风霜,凝结成不朽的航空精神。一航沈阳所和一航动力所的广大干部职工,始终把国家利益、事业 使命放在第一位,坚定同心协力的一盘棋思想,使重点工程实现了飞机和发动机研制的同步突破,取得了引进、消 化、吸收、再创新的同步发展,树立了飞机和发动机协同发展的典范。

当配装国产发动机的重点型号飞机成功首飞,标志着中国一航“航空报国、自主创新”又一丰硕成果诞生。该型发 动机从其立项研制到定型,每个阶段无不贯穿着飞发一体化、飞发协同的设计思想,是一航动力所、一航沈阳所等 厂所共同研发、攻关的结果。

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Old 01-12-2008   #539
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Re: China Flanker thread

All right, guys, very helpful comments.
But this thread has become very long and hard to follow, so here comes the continuation:

China Flanker Thread II

Great disscussion gents! But this thread is closed!
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Last edited by bd popeye; 01-13-2008 at 03:04 PM.
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