China Flanker thread

[Wingman]

WAIT A MINUTE!!!

I'm pretty sure this whole news about the PLAAF Su-30MK2 crash is a total hoax.

Look here. This is the Su-30 that crashed at the 1999 Paris Air Show
http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/msnbc001.htm

Take a look closely at the two wreckages. They look exactly alike!!!



And MiGLeader you're right, it's also in Russian paint scheme.

[Red not Dead]

Originally Posted by subfleet

russia, russia, russia, what kind of junk are you producing?

The crash has happenned in France. In 99 during an Airshow because the US delegation felt right to send their demonstrator in the runway while the russians were still closing in.

Feel free to look after it.

[drunkhomer]

those dont look like chinese firefighters as well

[renmin]

Originally Posted by MIGleader

its an mkk. you can tell from the humped back.

wow, that looks like a really nasty crash, but not something that can be repaired using refabricated old parts and some new parts. interesting thing is that the aircraft is in the russian air force paint scheme, not the plaaf one. theres no telling if this is actually a chiense crash.

Yes a nasty crash indeed but that is no Chinese fighter. That su-30 wheres the colors of russian fighters (trust me, I know). Almost all J-11 fighters of the PLAAF where the same color. a blueish gray. those dont look like Chinese fire trucks either. what I dont get is why China would claim for something like a plane crash and make themselves look bad.

[Wingman]

Originally Posted by renmin

what I dont get is why China would claim for something like a plane crash and make themselves look bad.

It wasn't the PRC that claimed this crash, it was Kanwa which is a Taiwanese news agency (and somewhat anti-PRC I believe) that claimed this. And then some other internet-based news sites copied Kanwa's news and reported the same thing.

Anyway I'm 99% sure this photo is from the 1999 Paris Air Show accident and not a Chinese Su-30MK2. Also the accident at the Paris Air Show happened due to pilot error, it was not due to faulty equipment.

[renmin]

Originally Posted by Wingman

It wasn't the PRC that claimed this crash, it was Kanwa which is a Taiwanese news agency (and somewhat anti-PRC I believe) that claimed this. And then some other internet-based news sites copied Kanwa's news and reported the same thing.

Anyway I'm 99% sure this photo is from the 1999 Paris Air Show accident and not a Chinese Su-30MK2. Also the accident at the Paris Air Show happened due to pilot error, it was not due to faulty equipment.

Well, works for me. Its makes quite much sense that the ROC would come up with this junk to insult china. sadly, only people like us who know the style of fighter jets can see through this hoax. i believe that is the paris crash. the Su-30 wheres the same paint sheme and looks severealy banned up.

[MIGleader]

interesting. sinodefence claims at least 5 mkks have crashed due to their extensive use in exercises. a lack of photos, however, makes this hard to prove.

this crash must not be good for marketing, but china and india both struck su-30 deals anyways.

[renmin]

OK. Guys, lets get back to Su-30 info instead of crashes. What kind of western aircraft do you think it is compatable with? Can it match up against a F-15? Can the PRC really arm their Su-30s with nuclear weapons?

[MIGleader]

the perfect western match for the su-30 is the f-15e, which has very simialr performance and the same mission. the su-30 is probably better than the f-15at dogfighting though

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by MIGleader

the perfect western match for the su-30 is the f-15e, which has very simialr performance and the same mission. the su-30 is probably better than the f-15at dogfighting though

I would compare it to f-15E, but it would loose out in BVR due to F-15E's superior avionics. Compared to some of the later models of F-15 like F-15K and F-15SG, it probably doesn't have the payload, operating range, weapon arsenal (like the Slammer), all weather capability, precision strike of F-15.

[Wingman]

But one advantage it does have over the F-15 in BVR is the higher range of the R-77. If datalinked with AWACS it should be ok too. Unfortunately China's AWACS isn't that good right now

[MIGleader]

Originally Posted by tphuang

I would compare it to f-15E, but it would loose out in BVR due to F-15E's superior avionics. Compared to some of the later models of F-15 like F-15K and F-15SG, it probably doesn't have the payload, operating range, weapon arsenal (like the Slammer), all weather capability, precision strike of F-15.

yeah, the su-30 does have a rather limited ground attack ability, despite heavy emphasis on it by the chinese side. The kh-56, kh-29, and kab-500 offer only limited choices for attack. the worst part is that it cant fire any chinese attack munition. its pretty clear why the plaaf quickly lost interest in ordering more su-30s.

[renmin]

Originally Posted by MIGleader

yeah, the su-30 does have a rather limited ground attack ability, despite heavy emphasis on it by the chinese side. The kh-56, kh-29, and kab-500 offer only limited choices for attack. the worst part is that it cant fire any chinese attack munition. its pretty clear why the plaaf quickly lost interest in ordering more su-30s.

I thought the su-30 can carry cruise missiles can it not? still it lacks the ability to carry bombs like how a f-15 can be loaded with ground munitions. perhaps the su-34 might become a more seficiant plane for ground attack for the PLA if they ever get their hands on any. in other words, the su-30 might be one of the best when it comes to air combat.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by Wingman

But one advantage it does have over the F-15 in BVR is the higher range of the R-77. If datalinked with AWACS it should be ok too. Unfortunately China's AWACS isn't that good right now

lol, what gives you the impression that R-77 has better range?

Do you realize the latest AMRAAM has a no escape zone of like 50 KM? R-77's real range is probably that much. In general, I would say R-77 is probably at AIM-120A, the later versions of it might be at AIM-120B level.

I think su-30mkk2 can carry kh-59mk, so that's an anti-ship cruise missile. The main problem is that mkk cannot carry any Chinese munition. That is a huge problem considering that missile is probably China's most advanced field right now.

[MIGleader]

well, most people beilive the real range of the r-77 to be around 70-80km.
another thing is that the mkks can not fire the sd-10(sucks, coz it means china will have to buy more outdated russian gear)